Mario isn't like Zelda, in that you almost always side with Zelda when there's any doubt.

If it's not Mario 3, Mario World, or Mario 64, a Mario game can be beaten like any other game.
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LeonhartFour posted...
also someone posted this on my Facebook feed today

http://tinyurl.com/pdmrbup

be afraid tranny


before call of duty there was what????
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I think in some cases this is true, but Paper Mario is not only a well-liked, popular RPG, it's also a Mario RPG from the N64 era. And it's against Tales!
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satoru iwata
TTYD is a Gamecube game, man!

This is a battle of the only two Gamecube RPGs that mattered.
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Super Mario World

more like

Super Magus World
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Communists
The Mana Sword posted...
before call of duty there was what????


http://i.imgur.com/2GZ0CGV.jpg
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LeonhartFour posted...
TTYD is a Gamecube game, man!

This is a battle of the only two Gamecube RPGs that mattered.


how dare you badmouth baten kaitos eternal wings and the lost ocean
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The Mana Sword posted...
LeonhartFour posted...
TTYD is a Gamecube game, man!

This is a battle of the only two Gamecube RPGs that mattered.


how dare you badmouth baten kaitos eternal wings and the lost ocean

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RIP Paul Bearer. Ohhhh nooooo. :(
I can name at least 10 gamecube games that mattered, but whatever.
GameCube RPGs?

Go ahead.

(Ports like Skies of Arcadia don't count)

(Actually, I might let you count them anyway and I'm still not sure you can get to 10)
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(edited 11/6/2015 3:32:57 PM)report
not rpgs! sorry baten kaitos you don't count
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xyzzy
I should really look at the bracket huh

TTYD does make this more competitive, but still, PM against Symphonia!
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satoru iwata
Oh I didn't see the word RPG.

That's harder then.
fuck you tranny

both baten katioses ruled
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RIP Paul Bearer. Ohhhh nooooo. :(
fuck yeah it beat pikmin 2
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RIP Paul Bearer. Ohhhh nooooo. :(
Skies of Arcadia kind of counts because otherwise you'd have to own a Dreamcast to play it.

I mean, a Dreamcast.

But yeah, I give you. Even getting to 5 would be hard.

There's also Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles which is kind of fun though it's incomplete unless you have access to 4 GBAs (damn nintendo and its greed).
(edited 11/6/2015 3:35:51 PM)report
pretty much any previous poll you use comes up with ToS winning

which means it'll probably lose
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moltar just post that matchup so we can get into it

darn you mario the only reason people feel good about this is because of your name
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xyzzy
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles was about as close to being a great game as possible while instead being complete shit.

It's really, really hard to make a game that good and then completely ruin it because you want to make a shitty special attachment.
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RIP Paul Bearer. Ohhhh nooooo. :(
such a 'paper' thin reason LOL
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I'm sure I unintentionally made a wii joke but screw you i'm making it first
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RIP Paul Bearer. Ohhhh nooooo. :(
WarThaNemesis2 posted...
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles was about as close to being a great game as possible while instead being complete shit.

It's really, really hard to make a game that good and then completely ruin it because you want to make a shitty special attachment.


I know, right.

I own that game. I loved it for a while but nowadays I can't feel anything about it other than hate. I haven't even beaten it, and probably never will.

It's amazing how little thought nintendo puts on some things. The GBA link mechanic disappeared from the Earth as soon as the DS was launched. It was on basically every Gamecube game launched from 2001 to 2003, and then suddenly gone. Which makes me wonder whether they even wanted those games to last.
(edited 11/6/2015 3:43:36 PM)report
If voters feel compelled to vote for everything, they'll be siding with Mario over Tales. Even if TTYD isn't top-tier, it's still a Mario game. They'll vote for familiarity.

At least, that's my takeaway after DQ/P3. Watch me get this totally wrong.
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Currently playing: Dark Souls 2
The first Paper Mario is probably my favorite game of all time, so I might vote TTYD just for nostalgia.

Although Tales is the better game.
Why is TTYD vs Symphonia even a debate? TTYD will beat it quite easily.
Because it has done better against the same opponent (Oblivion)
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BGE3: Today's Matches SSBM>Portal, Pokemon GSC>TWEWY, KHII>MGS4, TLoU>Halo 3
Points 2/4
LOL X-Stats forewarning

X-Stats project a 55.17% win for Symphonia
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Division 2: Round 1 - Match 10 Ė (8) Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door vs. (9) Tales of Symphonia

Moltarís Analysis

This is tough. Non-mainline Mario games are really hard to judge since we tend to overrate their strength because freakin' Mario and whatnot. Symphonia is past its peak these days, but it's hard to say if it has hit that nostalgia phase yet. This is close enough on paper (pun maybe intended) that either of these games can win here.

There's also those Oblivion matches and this somewhat recent poll that probably doesn't mean much: http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5632-13-years-after-its-original-release-whats-your-all-time. Symphonia looks good when it's in a multi-option poll, but 1v1 it struggles. It couldn't even beat God of War 1v1.

Tales should keep it close but I think Paper Mario sucks up more of the vote with all those extra options gone.

Moltarís Bracket: Paper Mario

Moltarís Prediction: Paper Mario - 52%


Transienceís Analysis

I'd love to make a smart argument about these two but I just don't have one. I think that anyone using the 'IT'LL WIN IT'S MARIO' argument is way off - Paper Mario is a legit, well-liked RPG, but it's not just because of Mario.
The main comparison point that we have between these games is Oblivion. Oblivion narrowly beat Symphonia is a close fourway and beat TTYD 55/45 in GOTD. Slight edge to Symphonia, I guess, but there's a real concern that Symphonia will look better in a fourway poll due to its rabid fanbase.
I think Symphonia is probably more liked by its fanbase while TTYD has a better playrate. I think Symphonia should probably take this but I'm going to back TTYD just because I think there's some overlap there and Symphonia may not have the votes to pull it off. Usually it needs all the votes it can get and this is the rare case where it has to deal with overlap (two Gamecube RPGs). However, we're looking at a 40,000 vote poll so Symphonia shouldn't have that problem. I really want to abandon my bracket and roll with Symphonia here but I'll go chalk. I feel real bad about it though - fortunately it's just one point.

transience's prediction: Paper Mario with 53%


Leonís Analysis

This is a battle of the GameCubeís top two RPGs (sorry, Baten Kaitos), and I think itíll be a close battle. I know some people will want to dismiss Symphoniaís chances because itís Mario vs. LOL Tales, but thereís a bit more to it than this. Symphonia has proven it has legitimate strength in 2009 and 2010. Yes, it lost to GoW in GOTD, but GoW also went on to put up 45% on HL2. Iím sure there are some people whoíd say thereís no way itís freakiní Mario! would lose to GoW, but they said the same thing about Halo 3/Mario Sunshine, too! The fact that Symphonia was exclusively on a Nintendo console to Western audiences (up until the PS3 HD port anyway), especially on a console that was starved for RPGs, has probably helped it quite a bit, since this site generally loves its JRPGs.

Of course, being considered Nintendo could also be a disadvantage for Symphonia considering itís facing off against a Mario game. I donít know if Iíd expect any significant SFF here or anything, especially since the two are likely close in strength, but it could be the difference between winning and losing. The Thousand-Year Door also proved it has legitimate strength in GOTD by putting up 45% on Oblivion. I donít think thereís any clear advantage to either game here, at least based purely on results. I feel like TTYD should probably be the favorite here, but I feel like Symphonia is a worthwhile risk, so Iím going to roll with it here.

Leonhartís Vote: Tales of Symphonia

Leonhartís Prediction: Tales of Symphonia with 51.00%
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no space
all business
Kleenexís Analysis

This could be a fun match. We actually have a near-direct comparison on these game through Oblivion. ToS gets somewhere around 47% on Oblivion, while Paper Mario got around 45%. Thatís not a ton a wiggle room, so five years detached from any kind of reliable stats really means this could go either way. And they both have bright, colorful boxart, so that doesnít help either!

I have Tales in my bracket, but I think Iím going to go against that here. KP said something interesting in the stats topic yesterday that Iíve been coming around on. The difference in vote totals across the four matches of the day are negligible, which would seem to indicate that people are voting in all of them even if they are apathetic towards or arenít familiar with all the games in one of the matches. In those cases, the more prominent name would likely benefit. Is Tales obscure enough on this site to have that matter? Stay tuned to find out!

Paper Mario: TYD with 52%



Guestís Analysis - BetrayedTangy

Now this is an interesting match. ToS did better than TTYD did in GotD, but I'm pretty sure TTYD takes this. There's quite a few things in TTYD's favor, for one it's a Mario game and Mario is well Mario, plus it helps that people have been pining for a new Paper Mario for quite a while, which generally helps with some nostalgia. Meanwhile I think the Tales series gets weaker with each new installment. More attention is going to be focused on the newers ones, as the older ones fade out. Granted Symphonia is often considered to be one of the best. Then again I could be completely wrong and over speculating. That said it could go either way, I wouldn't be surprised if ToS took down TTYD, but I'm giving the edge to the Mario game.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - 53%
Tales of Symphonia - 47%



Crew Consensus: Paper Mario is the heavy favorite
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no space
all business
leon no
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Communists
no Crew Curse

you're all welcome
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MasterMoltar posted...
Leonís Analysis

Assassinís Creed II got a rough draw here. It got 39% on Wind Waker in 2010. Thatís pretty good (also worth taking note of since Wind Waker likely awaits FFVI later on in the division). The series has probably declined in popularity overall in the last five years for a multitude of reasons, but that can actually be beneficial to AC2. The Ezio games could be thought of as ďThe good old days when the series was greatĒ or something like that. Hard to imagine a game thatís only like 6 years old could benefit from nostalgia, but when Ubisoft pops out games annually, I suppose itís possible!

Of course, AC2 has no chance of beating Final Fantasy VI here, but I think itíll do well enough to make those people whoíve taken it to win the division start second guessing that choice a little bit. I doubt FFVI has gotten this magical resurgence in strength that those FF polls we had seem to indicate. Weíve seen multiple times in the past that itís a mistake to try to correlate Favorite Character/Favorite Game polls to actual contest strength (Yoshi winning those Favorite Mario Character polls, for instance). Iíd say FFVI doing better in those polls is more of an indictment of FFVIIís continued decline than anything else, but I suppose weíll see since Allen has set them up to potentially face off in the division finals.


I suspect AC2 is probably weaker than it was in 2010, because the series has been run into the ground by receiving major games on a yearly basis now. That can't be good for the long-term health of the series and is my basis for predicting AC2 to be weaker in 2015. I also think FFVI could be at least a little bit stronger than we saw in the previous contest it was eligible for. My initial prediction for FFVI was a little bit on the low side in the Oracle, so I'm going high tonight with a prediction above 70%.
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Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~
Popular at school, but not as cool as raytan7585, Guru Champ!
saved by the Leonhart
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add the c and back away
iphonesience
Leon the crew curse was literally my last hope


fuck you mang
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"Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking?"
how can you forget Dwarven Vow #7

justice and love will always win

(also there's always The Show Curse)
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(edited 11/6/2015 5:45:31 PM)report
There's one thing that may interfere with TTYD, either positvely or negatively.

It's widely considered the last good Paper Mario.

Super Paper Mario had mixed reviews, with many considering it abandoned the RPG elements for platforming. I heard the story was very good though (I haven't played it).

Paper Mario Sticker Star is widely considered a steaming pile of turd with zero redeeming factors.

And then we have the next game, Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, which seems to be getting some hype, but most of the people seem to be frustrated that the game isn't taking any elements from the Mario RPG series, only from NSMB/Sunshine/Galaxy. And also it looks similar to Sticker Star.

Maybe the frustration over nintendo dropping the ball over and over with the series could hurt Paper Mario. Or maybe the idea that it is the last good game in the series could help it. I don't know.
(edited 11/6/2015 5:56:27 PM)report
ZeldaTPLink posted...
And then we have the next game, Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, which seems to be getting some hype, but most of the people seem to be frustrated that the game isn't taking any elements from the Mario RPG series, only from NSMB/Sunshine/Galaxy. And also it looks similar to Sticker Star.


I should take a look at this new Mario game. Platformers are far more fun than RPG's.
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Ole, ole, ole, ole. Ole! Ole! (Accents and inverted !-marks missing)
On a bet with three other users on if a certain girl genie will be in Smash; I say no.
Lopen's Officially Unofficial Guest Analysis:

Mario is probably a bit more popular at base here just by strength of the name, but not by a huge amount (Symphonia has more than held its own in these contests, say what you will about the character), and I feel like any and all SFF split goes in favor of Symphonia here. It just seemed to be the RPG that of the two got by far more hype on the Gamecube. TTYD was just another Mario RPG game.

Lopen's prediction:

Tales of Symphonia with 54.89%
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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
Hm interesting. I had no idea (due to not doing a ton of research on this match) that Tales was actually stronger in the GotY.

That makes me more confident if anything that ToS will SFF Paper Mario here. More of you should've picked it!
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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
40% of brackets had Half-Life beating FFX, holy crap. Casuals are dumber than ever confirmed.

MMX was a slight favorite over Batman though. That's probably the closest we've seen to a 50/50 split since Yuna/Knux in 2003.
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The Mario RPG doubt seems real despite all the picks for it.

Tales SFF Mario psh
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satoru iwata
Half-Life is a pretty logical pick. that game is way more important/influential than the tenth Final Fantasy.
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xyzzy
Final Fantasy X was more than the "tenth Final Fantasy." You'd have a better case if it was like VIII IX, or XII there. Being the first FF game on the PS2 is big. If you're on a console centric game site it's absolutely the more influential game, even ignoring this site's RPG/FF bias.
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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
sure, but Half-Life is still a bigger deal in the grand scheme. of course FFX is more popular but I don't think we should disparage people who thought a hugely influential FPS would win a contest match.
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xyzzy
I figured more people would still remember that FF always wins...!
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